[NL25 FR]Masterpuppet'i sõnumid lahinguväljalt.

[qbj0hn]

Re: [NL10-16 FR]Masterpuppet'i sõnumid lahinguväljalt.

Post #339,

Liiga vähe tahad raha saada, jube thin värk, ükskõik mis statsid vastasel ka poleks.

+1 HerrJanksile muidu.

[Strawberry]

Re: [NL10-16 FR]Masterpuppet'i sõnumid lahinguväljalt.

Ma olen täheldanud et microdes üldiselt ongi redline üsna raske ülesmäge liigutada.

#1 inimesed alahindavad kui suur rake on microdes, suur rake mõjutab väga oluliselt ka redline-i
#2 villainid callivad palju rohkem ja selliste vastu tulekski adjustida rõhudes rohkem value handidele ja vähem bluffidele (aka blue line)

Kergelt negatiivne redline microdes ei ole kindlasti halb

[Murdock]

Re: [NL10-16 FR]Masterpuppet'i sõnumid lahinguväljalt.

Tahaks näha mõne micromehe graphi kellel redline on 0$ lähedal.
On see üldse micros võimalik?

[Ints]

Re: [NL10-16 FR]Masterpuppet'i sõnumid lahinguväljalt.

see kuu esimesed 20k oli 0 ringis

[reggie]

Re: [NL10-16 FR]Masterpuppet'i sõnumid lahinguväljalt.

Päris hea tekst punase joone kohta.

(Klõpsa sisu nägemiseks / peitmiseks)

The Red-Line Myth



These days having a graph with a break-even/positive red-line is the fashion. Ironically it could be losing you a lot of money.

The purpose of this post is not to bash players with a positive red-line; some very sick players have these type of graphs. The purpose is to demonstrate how some players are burning money to achieve it - and in some instances might not be playing as well as players with a falling red-line.

The Relation between Red and Blue


The first thing to understand is that it is virtually impossible to change your non-showdown winnings without affecting your showdown winnings. Any change you make to red will nearly always have an effect on blue.

Imagine you check behind in a thin river situation with the best hand. Those winnings will always go to the blue line. What if you bet though? Likely your opponent might fold and those winnings will now hit your red line instead of your blue line. You've increased your red line at the expense of your blue line.

What should influence your decision in whether to sacrifice your blue line in exchange for a better red line? The value of red and blue lines is exactly equivalent. $1 in the red line is worth exactly $1 in the blue line. Simply put, you want to choose the option that makes you the most money and not be influenced by whether that money will hit red or blue. If you had a choice between $1 increase to your red line, or a $1.50 increase to your blue line, the decision should be pretty straightforward.

We are going to consider 3 general scenarios where players are sacrificing a large chunk of blue line to achieve a smaller amount of red-line. In other words they are arbitrarily making plays that increase their red line to produce a "cool" graph, but not maximising their value in the long run. Afterwards we will consider 3 ways to improve red-line while sacrificing a smaller amount of blue-line.


3 ways of Losing EV by focusing on Red Line


1 - Bluffing with the best hand

Imagine you reach a river scenario OOP where you have double barrelled with a pair. For the sake of simplicity (and we will do this in all examples) let's assume our pair is good, our opponent has a busted draw, and he loves to bluff. (In reality you won't know this for certain but you can make your best estimates based on ranges and your hand reading ability).

There is $100 in the pot. Since we know we have the best hand and our opponent will fold his draw we can easily add $100 to our red-line by betting and taking down the pot. If we were to check however and let our opponent bluff, we are clearly going to make more money than this. Specifically we will make the average amount villain bets multiplied by the frequency he bets (since we know we are good) on top of the $100. Betting here will increase your red-line but is essentially burning money since check-calling will result in an even bigger net-gain to your blue line.

2 - Value betting too thin

Hopefully you are aware that in order for a value bet to be profitable you need to get called by worse >50% of the time. The amount of money already in the pot does not factor into value-bet calculations.

Let's imagine we are on the river in position and we know when we bet our opponent will show up with a worse hand only 40% of the time. Our value-bet is losing us money, we should check-back, adding to our blue-line. When we do bet and our opponent has a worse hand, those winnings sometimes go to the red-line instead of the blue-line. The play overall is losing money and is a bad one, but it also has the side effect of transferring some of our winnings to the red-line category.

3- Bluffing in bad spots

Bluffing against calling-stations or players with strong ranges is usually not going to pay off. When your bluff fails it is not going to be represented in your red-line (assuming you reach showdown), it's your blue-line that takes a big hit. The only time your red-line is affected is when your bluff works and your red line goes up. It doesn't mean the bluff was profitable, it just means that you are continually sacrificing both your overall winrate and your blue-line to improve your red line.

It pays to be passive (On occasion wink )


Often players go into games with the mantra that they want to be "aggressive", fire a lot of barrels, and really jump up their red-line. Against some players this strategy will work a charm. Against others - specifically players who either like to bluff too much, or call too much, it simply isn't the best strategy. Aggression is often good in poker, but in certain situations being passive is the correct option.

Vs certain players the way you maximise your earnings is by playing with a falling red-line. You can arbitrarily try to increase your red-line but likely you will be sacrificing EV by doing it. You are literally shelling out dollars just for the luxury of having a cooler looking graph. Sure, maybe other posters will salivate over it and make you feel awesome, but naturally what they don't see is all the situations where you had to play sub-optimally to achieve it.

Having said that, we don't want to be giving up red-line dollars unnecessarily, and if we do find an opportunity where we can sacrifice blue-line dollars for a larger amount of red-line dollars there is no reason why we wouldn't want to. Let's consider 3 simple ways of improving red-line.


3 ways to Improve your Red Line (and your winrate).


1) Steal wider

People often don't think of missing good steal attempts as a leak. After all, it's just a few bb. The size of a leak is not just measured in big-blinds though, it's specifically measured in big-blinds over a period of time. In other words the frequency with which a leak appears in your game has a direct impact on how big that leak is.

Often when thinking of big leaks players might describe a time when they occasionally stack off light with a baby flush on the river. In reality this happens so infrequently it'll actually be a pretty small leak. You often get chances to make light steals 2 or 3 times an orbit, so routinely missing these opportunities will cost you a ton of money in the long run. Steal wide vs tight blinds!

Of course, opening wider means that when you get called your range will be wider. You will lose at showdown more often. You are sacrificing blue-line in exchange for red-line. Your net gain in red-line will be more than your net-losses in blue line however.

2) 3bet bluff

Look for players with a high Ft3bet and 3bet bluff. It's extremely important to understand the maths behind bluffs - it is very basic and you should look into it even if you don't consider yourself a maths based player.

SB posts 0.5BB. Hero (BB) posts 1BB. SB raises to 3BB. Hero raises to 9BB. How often does this bluff need to work?

Use this formula - Amount invested / Total Pot (including hero's bet)
Hero raises 8. Total pot is 12. 8/12 = 0.666 or 66.66%

This means if your opponent folds more than 66% of the time you generate an instant profit by 3bet bluffing, even if you give up when called. As before, you are going to be getting to showdown with weaker on average; you are sacrificing blue-line for red-line. The same as before, your net gain in red-line will be more than your net-losses in blue line.

3) Check-raise bluff

This can apply to flop, turn or river. The maths is exactly the same as it is in 3bet bluffing. Establish what price you are getting on your bluff and with what frequency you need it to work. If your opponent is folding more often than this you are going to generate instant profit (and yes with a cost to your overall blue-line).

Burning Money to Look Cool


That's essentially what some players are doing by arbitrarily trying to achieve a better red-line. At the end of the day which is a better? Winning at 10bb/100 with falling red-line or winning at 7bb/100 with a positive red-line?

So think about what you are doing, and why. Never try to arbitrarily make certain stats rise or fall; think about the play that is going to net you the most EV in the long run.

[virukunn]

Re: [NL10-16 FR]Masterpuppet'i sõnumid lahinguväljalt.

Tahaks näha mõne micromehe graphi kellel redline on 0$ lähedal.
On see üldse micros võimalik?

Võimalik kindlasti aga selle arvelt kukub SD. Muidu +1 Strawberryle, eriti 2. poindile.

[masterpuppet]

Re: [NL10-16 FR]Masterpuppet'i sõnumid lahinguväljalt.

Sellised käed teevad alati nalja.

Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 2 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $10.00
BTN/SB: $9.52

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BB with J J
BTN/SB raises to $0.25, Hero raises to $0.85, BTN/SB raises to $9.52 all in, Hero calls $8.67

Flop: ($19.04) J 7 3 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Turn: ($19.04) T (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($19.04) 7 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $19.04
Hero shows J J (a full house, Jacks full of Sevens)
BTN/SB shows 7 7 (four of a kind, Sevens)
BTN/SB wins $18.54
(Rake: $0.50)

[masterpuppet]

Re: [NL10-16 FR]Masterpuppet'i sõnumid lahinguväljalt.

Villane on huvitav regular 25/13 statsidega 500 käe kohta. Cbeti on raisenud 15% kordadel.
On ka üks huvitav read, kus callides mu resteali BU boardil A72ss pani mu standard 1/2 cbetile nupud.


Flop fine? Mida teeme turnis?

Poker Stars $0.08/$0.16 No Limit Hold'em - 7 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

SB: $16.00
BB: $24.71
Hero (UTG): $24.70
UTG+1: $6.41
MP: $18.98
CO: $2.56
BTN: $16.00

Pre Flop: ($0.24) Hero is UTG with J A
Hero raises to $0.48, 1 fold, MP calls $0.48, 4 folds

Flop: ($1.20) 6 T T (2 players)
Hero bets $0.72, MP raises to $2.08, Hero raises to $6, MP calls $3.92

Turn: ($13.20) K (2 players)

HERO?

[masterpuppet]

Re: [NL10-16 FR]Masterpuppet'i sõnumid lahinguväljalt.

Games are dead..

Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em $0.02 Ante - 9 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

MP2: $18.72
CO: $11.41
BTN: $25.00
Hero (SB): $16.22
BB: $11.68
UTG: $24.32
UTG+1: $9.33
UTG+2: $25.00
MP1: $11.27

Pre Flop: ($0.33) Hero is SB with A A
UTG raises to $0.20, UTG+1 calls $0.20, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.20, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.65, BB calls $1.55, UTG calls $1.45, UTG+1 calls $1.45, MP2 calls $1.45

Flop: ($8.43) 5 3 6 (5 players)
Hero bets $4, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls $4

Turn: ($16.43) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $7, MP2 calls $7

River: ($30.43) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $3.55 all in, MP2 calls $3.55

Final Pot: $37.53
MP2 shows K A (a pair of Sixes)
Hero shows A A (two pair, Aces and Sixes)
Hero wins $36.03
(Rake: $1.50)

[masterpuppet]

Re: [NL10-16 FR]Masterpuppet'i sõnumid lahinguväljalt.

The power of checking...

Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 2 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $10.00
BTN/SB: $8.04

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BB with K A
BTN/SB calls $0.05, Hero raises to $0.40, BTN/SB raises to $0.70, Hero raises to $2, BTN/SB calls $1.30

Flop: ($4.00) T A 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB checks

Turn: ($4.00) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $2, BTN/SB calls $2

River: ($8.00) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $6 all in, BTN/SB calls $4.04 all in

Final Pot: $16.08
Hero shows K A (two pair, Aces and Nines)
BTN/SB shows J J (two pair, Jacks and Nines)
Hero wins $15.58
(Rake: $0.50)

-----

Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em $0.02 Ante - 8 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

UTG: $9.27
UTG+1: $24.23
Hero (MP1): $26.50
MP2: $40.14
CO: $25.00
BTN: $9.94
SB: $11.54
BB: $25.00

Pre Flop: ($0.31) Hero is MP1 with Q Q
UTG calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.55, 1 fold, CO calls $0.55, 2 folds, BB raises to $2.10, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.55, CO calls $1.55

Flop: ($6.61) J 2 4 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $3, CO calls $3, BB folds

Turn: ($12.61) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $7, CO calls $7

River: ($26.61) J (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $12.83 all in, Hero calls $12.83

Final Pot: $52.27
Hero shows Q Q (two pair, Queens and Jacks)
CO shows 4 6 (two pair, Jacks and Fours)
Hero wins $50.82
(Rake: $1.45)

[masterpuppet]

Re: [NL10-16 FR]Masterpuppet'i sõnumid lahinguväljalt.



Poker Stars $0.08/$0.16 No Limit Hold'em - 7 players - View hand 2065028
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

MP: $16.00
CO: $12.80
Hero (BTN): $16.87
SB: $8.04
BB: $14.39
UTG: $16.62
UTG+1: $16.00

Pre Flop: ($0.24) Hero is BTN with 9 K
2 folds, MP calls $0.16, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.64, 2 folds, MP calls $0.48

Flop: ($1.52) 9 8 8 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $1, MP calls $1

Turn: ($3.52) 7 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $2.30, MP calls $2.30

River: ($8.12) 9 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $4.80, MP raises to $12.06 all in, Hero calls $7.26

Final Pot: $32.24
MP shows 2 2 (two pair, Nines and Eights)
Hero shows 9 K (a full house, Nines full of Eights)
Hero wins $30.79
(Rake: $1.45)

[masterpuppet]

Re: [NL10-16 FR]Masterpuppet'i sõnumid lahinguväljalt.

Kena hommikupoolik oli just. Kaart jooksis ning tundsin ennast laudades väga hästi. Tulid vanad ajad meelde. Roll 500$ ning hakkan vaikselt NL25 mõtteid mõlgutama.

Käsi kah. Kõik villased vaalad. Avaja oli eelnevalt 2-l eelmisel käel samuti avanud ning paistis agrom. Selline moove fine? Tundus kuidagi antud kontekstis mõistlik.

Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em $0.02 Ante - 9 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

SB: $63.10
BB: $24.42
UTG: $14.23
UTG+1: $10.70
UTG+2: $15.26
MP1: $25.00
MP2: $12.20
Hero (CO): $20.00
BTN: $24.81

Pre Flop: ($0.33) Hero is CO with K A
UTG calls $0.10, 2 folds, MP1 raises to $0.30, MP2 raises to $1, Hero raises to $19.98 all in, 6 folds

Final Pot: $2.73
Hero mucks K A
Hero wins $2.73
(Rake: $0.00)


Ja tänase hommiku grindilaul. Soovitan soojal Planeedi depüütalbumit. Puhas kuld ja win.

[Majandaja]

Re: [NL10-16 FR]Masterpuppet'i sõnumid lahinguväljalt.

Mis su kasutaja starsis on, kui see saladus pole?

500$ nl25 jaoks on minu arust liiga vähe. Ise liikusin nl25 esimestel shottidel 750$ ja hiljem veel shotid 800$-ga. Tiksun siiani nl16 ja nl25 vahet. Loodetavasti saab needus varsti murtud.

[masterpuppet]

Re: [NL10-16 FR]Masterpuppet'i sõnumid lahinguväljalt.

Ma arvan, et kui sa hästi kõrvutad neid nimesid, siis saad saladusele jälile. Eelnevalt üks härra siin hõiskas ka selle nime välja.

Aga nah, arvan et 500$ fine 80bb sisseistumiseks. Olen pokkerikarjääri jooksul seda NL25 nii palju nühkinud, et mingit põdemist küll pole. Lihtsalt peab õigel ajal alla tulema tagasi.

[Mrt1989]

Re: [NL10-16 FR]Masterpuppet'i sõnumid lahinguväljalt.

Imo selles AK käes oleks parem 4betida 2.70$ peale . See annab võimaluse fishil oma pasaga callida ja saame ta vastu IP pelada. Shove tundub liiga tugev ja fishil võimalus korrektselt pelada ja foldida.